I have acquired a KX-155, KLN-89B and a 209A indicator. The 209A has a built-in relay to switch between the GPS and NAV. I'm trying to figure out what 'annunciation' is _required_ for this setup. The MD41 annunciator is about $950. I can get the control head only for about $700.

The real question is do I have to have this? $700 seems like a lot for a couple of switches and some lights! Can I not have a simple toggle switch on the panel to switch between NAV/GPS and let the 89B do all the annunciation?

Matthew

You will need a multi pole relay and the required annunciators for IFR
approach.
Usually a 165 and a GPS drive one indicator. If you have a 155 you need
a converter.
Michelle

N523RV wrote:

>I have acquired a KX-155, KLN-89B and a 209A indicator. The 209A has a
>built-in relay to switch between the GPS and NAV. I'm trying to figure
>out what 'annunciation' is _required_ for this setup. The MD41
>annunciator is about $950. I can get the control head only for about
>$700.
>
>The real question is do I have to have this? $700 seems like a lot for
>a couple of switches and some lights! Can I not have a simple toggle
>switch on the panel to switch between NAV/GPS and let the 89B do all
>the annunciation?
>
>Matthew
>
>
>
>

N523RV wrote:
Can I not have a simple toggle
> switch on the panel to switch between NAV/GPS and let the 89B do all
> the annunciation?
>
> Matthew

Without reviewing the requirements, I believe the whole purpose of the
annunciator is to place it within the primary instrument scan. With the
panel mount GPS being presumaby in a radio stack several inches to the
side of the "6 pack", the GPS alone does not meet that placement
requirement. Again, I am only paraphrasing what I believe I've read in
the past, not quoting chapter and verse. I believe there is an AC that
deals with IFR GPS useage that provides one means of compliance.

Look on Ebay.. you might be surprised at what you can come up with.
Also, check out places like Air Salvage of Dallas (www.asod.com, I
think). It doesn't have to be new.

Dave

Dave S wrote:
I believe there is an AC that
> deals with IFR GPS useage that provides one means of compliance.

Ok, did some of my own searching, since at some point in the future I
will be retrofitting an IFR gps into a kitplane...

And I am unable to locate a current AC or TSO that REQUIRES the
placement of an annunciator in the scan like I previously mentioned.

AC 20-138, which is no longer valid, mentioned text that supported my claim.

The KLN 89 series pilot's guide, however, REQUIRES the use of a remote
annunciator in IFR approved installations. So somewhere along the way,
the manufacturer was told "thou shalt do this" and they incorporated it
into their "requirements" and I am reasonably sure that any flight
manual supplement issued by King for this device will indicate that
their remote switches and annunciator are required for IFR certification.

http://www.windsorflyingclub.com/documents/kln89b.pdf
Page 22 and 23 appear to have the defining text and graphics.

If you are installing this in a certified airframe, my recommendation is
to discuss this issue with the avionics shop that is doing the install.
In recommending that, I am recommending that an avionics shop DO or at
least supervise the install. Go someplace that deals in the equipment
and has done several of that piece of equipment in your type of airframe.

Dave

You need it to be IFR certified, but you don't need it to make it work.
I just use my IFR GPS for enroute. I take the ILS or VOR approaches.
Skip the annunciator and save your money for an autopilot. I don't
think I've ever done a GPS approach in actual. Yeah, I have an
annunciator.

Not so. The KI-209A contains its own switching relays and converter,
and can be driven by both the KLN-89B and the KX-155. The annunicator
can be made from a couple of push buttons and a few lights, and ought
to run a lot less than $950. Your FSDO will be able to comment whether
lights are needed at all.

I have an 89/B in my plane and had it installed a few years ago. It was
a requirement for IFR certification to have an annunicator installed in
the visual scan. The 89/B did not accomplish that or in the unit. Rules
may have changed.


Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


Mike Granby wrote:
> Not so. The KI-209A contains its own switching relays and converter,
> and can be driven by both the KLN-89B and the KX-155. The annunicator
> can be made from a couple of push buttons and a few lights, and ought
> to run a lot less than $950. Your FSDO will be able to comment whether
> lights are needed at all.
>

You'll likely need it for IFR ceritification, but it should cost
considerably less than $700. As another poster pointed out, the switching
relay is internal to the 209A (as indicated by the "A"). So you need an
annunciator panel that does not need to include the relay, such as
Ameri-King AK-950-L for the KLN-89B. (The L means no internal, big relay).
You might contact the mfgr. directly and may be surprised at a reasonable
quote. It still seems like a lot of money for the function, but it's TSO'd,
has both latching swithes and a momentary switch, plus a momentary test
switch to test all bulb, annunciations of various colors, and auto dimming.
A little more to implement than a couple of switches and a couple of bulbs.
YMMV.


"N523RV" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have acquired a KX-155, KLN-89B and a 209A indicator. The 209A has a
> built-in relay to switch between the GPS and NAV. I'm trying to figure
> out what 'annunciation' is _required_ for this setup. The MD41
> annunciator is about $950. I can get the control head only for about
> $700.
>
> The real question is do I have to have this? $700 seems like a lot for
> a couple of switches and some lights! Can I not have a simple toggle
> switch on the panel to switch between NAV/GPS and let the 89B do all
> the annunciation?
>
> Matthew
>
>
> --
> N523RV

> A little more to implement than a couple
> of switches and a couple of bulbs.

You don't need push to test, as the GPS tests them on power-up. You
don't need auto-dimming, either. A switch an a zenner will do just
fine. So, while it's nice to use the Ameri-King unit, you can roll you
own. I've flown a plane with just such a set-up, and it was IFR
approved, too.

Mike Granby wrote:
>>A little more to implement than a couple
>>of switches and a couple of bulbs.
>
>
> You don't need push to test, as the GPS tests them on power-up. You
> don't need auto-dimming, either. A switch an a zenner will do just
> fine. So, while it's nice to use the Ameri-King unit, you can roll you
> own. I've flown a plane with just such a set-up, and it was IFR
> approved, too.
>
My GNS480 is too far to the right to qualify for "annunciator less"
operation. i've got two of those "rotate to dim -- press to test"
bulbs like is used for everything else on my panel.